LEV protocol documentation?

[geeksville]

Hi @casainho,

Long time no see! I hope all is well for you.

My ebike recumbent (based on your project with an old version of our display code) is still happily riding along. But I'm thinking about buying a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 5.0. Alas, my preferred bike computer (Hammerhead Karoo 2) doesn't yet support the ANT+ LEV profile. But they do have a plug-in architecture, so I'm thinking about writing a LEV profile plugin.

Googling led me to your new project. Have you had any luck finding (or reverse engineering) the ANT+ profile. If so, I'd love to crib from your work. Of course I'm happy to share anything that might be useful from this plugin I might be making ;-).

Kevin

[geeksville]

oops - I'm still happy to work together but no need to link me the profile docs. Found them on the ANT site.

[casainho]

Hi Kevin!! Nice to see you again.

Garmin is much better on supporting custom apps, with the same development for watches and the GPS cycling computers. If Hammerhead Karoo can't help you, you can consider the Garmin devices.

Yes, the ANT docs are on their site but if you need something, just ask me.

I just built my EBike with a carbon frame and with a Bafang motor M500 (M510 new version weights 3kgs). We can buy the motor parts at unit, and they are not to much expensive. So for a more open system, this is the best motor I could find and Bafang have some good motors, including one M800 that weights 2.3kgs.
We have a LOT of technical knowledge for this motors, they communicate with CAN to the display, torque sensor and battery pack.

The yellow is a mini cargo bike with TSDZ2 and the other is my new one with this motor:

And our EasyDIY display, using NRF52840 board + 1.3 inches OLED display + CAN module, running the firmware you developed!!!! Working for both TSDZ2 and this Bafang M500/M510/M600. This is where I implement ANT+ LEV (since this motors do not have it, unlike the one you refer) and ANT+ CONTROLS for Garmin GPS page change. I will also add the ANT pedal power meter, since we have candence and torque sensor value:

[geeksville]

Super cool. I'll look into that bafang motor and possibly go that way rather than the Specialized SL 1.1 motor. Yeah I really like Garmin also (longtime fanboy) and I still have my Fenix 6. But I sold my edge 830 because OMG (except for missing ebike support) I was way more impressed with the Karoo. It is so fast and the maps/nav is so nice also the screen is amazing. I'm reluctant to give that up so I'm investigating using their SDK to write a plugin for their GUI (their device runs android).

[geeksville]

btw - that mini cargo bike is badass!

[casainho]

I did my build based on this build guide - the same frame and almost the same components: https://www.emtbforums.com/community/threads/my-dengfu-e10-build.24436
Note that currently you can use the new M510 that is 3kg instead of M500 that is 3.6kg.

And as you are a developer of our firmware, I can share with with the discount code from GreenBikeKit, where you can buy the motor and all other parts.

I had the Fenix 6 and bought the Fenix 7 mainly because of stamina feature.
I do some light trail runs and I use a Garmin watch that has a metric called "stamina" that represents my energy. As I am tall, fat and not fit, I have low stamina and so I need to manage very well my energy so I can go to the end of the trails of 15kms.
For example today, I was able to run the 15 kms and never stop to walk because I was tired, so I did manage well my energy and in the end, my Garmin watch stamina said I had energy for only more 3kms - quite accurate for the way I was felling tired:

The Garmin watches or cycling GPS computers as Edge, can also calculate stamina for cycling activities but for that it needs the real time input of pedal human power. My plan is to calculate the pedal human power from Bafang M500/M600 torque sensor, using our EasyDIY display, and send wireless by ANT to the watch or GPS computer, so the user will be able to see later the graph of pedal human power as also got the real time stamina while cycling.

Here the example of my running power (around average 250W) and stamina graphs on the 15 kms trail run - I use the Stryd run power meter:

I have high expectations for doing more fitness with this new EBike, and so I wish to also keep managing my own energy and not only the battery energy :)

[geeksville]

oh yes - one of my reasons for going for the specialized is (currently) options for ebikes with integrated ANT+ Power meter are limited ;-). I totally agree that adding Power broadcasts from an open source motor system would be super great!

…

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 2:35 AM casainho ***@***.***> wrote: I did my build based on this build guide - the same frame and almost the same components: https://www.emtbforums.com/community/threads/my-dengfu-e10-build.24436 Note that currently you can use the new M510 that is 3kg instead of M500 that is 3.6kg. I had the Fenix 6 and bought the Fenix 7 mainly because of stamina feature. I do some light trail runs and I use a Garmin watch that has a metric called "stamina" that represents my energy. As I am tall, fat and not fit, I have low stamina and so I need to manage very well my energy so I can go to the end of the trails of 15kms. For example today, I was able to run the 15 kms and never stop to walk because I was tired, so I did manage well my energy and in the end, my Garmin watch stamina said I had energy for only more 3kms - quite accurate for the way I was felling tired: [image: image] <https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/147128/171045191-7e1abb6f-d533-4fa9-ac40-398d13188716.png> The Garmin watches or cycling GPS computers as Edge, can also calculate stamina for cycling activities but for that it needs the real time input of pedal human power. My plan is to calculate the pedal human power from Bafang M500/M600 torque sensor, using our EasyDIY display, and send wireless by ANT to the watch or GPS computer, so the user will be able to see later the graph of pedal human power as also got the real time stamina while cycling. Here the example of my running power (around average 250W) and stamina graphs on the 15 kms trail run - I use the Stryd run power meter: [image: image] <https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/147128/171045242-352c2d5e-1990-4739-b799-90272fa6ac1f.png> I have high expectations for doing more fitness with this new EBike, and so I wish to also keep managing my own energy and not only the battery energy :) — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#121 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABXB2JZ5OTBKWUBQ4M6BYTVMUC5LANCNFSM5XJOIJSA> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[geeksville]

re your mountain bike (if you don't mind me cluttering github with these questions ;-)):

I don't suppose you've run across a slick carbon street/hybrid frame that is M510 compatible? I might try doing your same DIY thing (and using/participating in your project again - heh) instead of specialized. In short: I'm looking for lightweight, small battery small motor - kinda a "regular bike but with a bit of eassist" . Something kinda like https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-vado-sl-5-0-eq/p/188200?color=319600-188200

Any thoughts @casainho ?

[casainho]

Maybe this: Dengfu and Lightcarbon have frames for road bikes, for Bafang M800 (2.3 kg, 200W motor).

This companies do not build for us, it is for OEM. We are lucky that they are available to sell to us at unit. Like many others, I contacted by e-mail [Melody tony@dengfubikes.com], got all details by e-mail and paid to their PayPal. I also got e-mail contact with [Jim Lee jim@lightcarbon.com] but I ended up to buy instead the Dengfu E10 frame - note that sometimes they do not even have listed their new frames on their sites, so you need to ask!!

M800 will be more difficult to find the parts but again, I think you need to ask to shops like GreenBikeKit and they will probably get it to you.

The frame is probably the hard part to find. After the motor, but currently, with shops selling the motor including all parts for maintenance, that is easy!! Then the battery can be done by yourself or buy to the frame seller (Dengfu sells the battery pack or only the empty box). The other mechanical bike parts, very easy, I am not a mechanical engineer but seem to me that parts are very easy to assembly, just like Ikea - I just bought a torque wrench and did follow torque tables for screws, for MTB.

M510 or M800, seems they are the best motors we can find for DIY. One one youtube review from a experienced guy testing EBike motors, he says M500 is one of the silent motors he tried. So, a motor that is silent, light, and that we can DIY build our EBike including customizing our battery pack (battery pack is not locked to the motor), and developing our own firmware - this is the best we can get!!!

For the first time ever, I decided to build my own battery, and with that popular advanced BMS with Bluetooth, and I bought the cells from an well know EU shop: https://www.nkon.nl

So I were able to optimize my battery pack characteristics, choosing the best cells for my usage, weight / current discharge / capacity / internal resistance. And our EasyDIY display calculate the battery pack resistance and in future I want to more careful look at it since both capacity degradation and battery resistance, are the indicators for battery age.

[geeksville]

ooh that's super useful. I'll do some investigation and try to find a frame that fits my usecase. Thank you for the great photos also.